We are writing about this like it is something to awe over when it's clearly a war crime. If Russia or China was the one that did this it would be written about completely differently.
Can't wait for this to be made into a movie where the hero is the one that killed innocent civilians. /s
Really it does not matter if it is a war crime or is not.
We are talking about just one drop in an ocean of war crimes. One drop more or less will not change the fact that Israel behavior is out of control and extremely disgusting.
Could somebody show any single international law about war and human rights that still has not been desecrated by Israel?.
Any people jailed by that? oh they don't work with us anymore, they are 'ex', so everything is fine
No need to be outraged, Israel is doing exactly what the US leadership wants without the US having to put her own troops on the ground.
The US security state has never given a damn about freedom or democracy or any of that. It only cares about world power which in turn is about controlling the world’s oil so China can’t get it.
> Israel is doing exactly what the US leadership wants
I don't think that Biden will send a Christmas card to Netanyahu this year.
Biden, the maximum representation of US leadership, asked repeatedly Netanyahu to stop the genocide. Biden lost the elections, in part, because Netanyahu smiled a lot, gave a lot of pinky promises, cheered a lot, and then treated him like a fool and increased the genocide speed, knowing perfectly that this would harm Biden. Not unlike what he did with previous presidents. He does not care.
Biden continued providing weapons, without which the genocide would be unable to continue. If he wanted the genocide to stop, he could stop providing weapons.
Sadly, it is extremely typical for "liberal parties" - both currently and historically - that they will always talk about how bad things are bad, but when making actual decisions, they almost always support the bad things.
Just because you have a weapon, does not mean that you are forced to bomb a school full of children. And an hospital. And a refugee camp. And a journalists van. And humanitary NGO staff preparing food for refugees
It was their decision and only their decision. Israel are adults and could decide anytime to proceed according to law.
They instead killed as much children, and journalists, and doctors, and nurses, and volunteers as possible. They destroyed trucks of help aid and food, knowing that people were starving at the other side of the fence. And they toke selfies smiling happy in front of the rubbles in the most sadist and disgusting way possible. They even killed some of their own kidnapped people.
They don't even seem to regret the damage done to the image of Jews in the entire planet. They will be shinning happy for this, as long as the tourists don't stop visiting the country and buying silly souvenirs.
It was a decision of Biden to keep giving them weapons after they kept using the weapons to bomb schools etc.
Usually, if you don't support the bombing of schools, you tell someone to stop bombing schools, and they keep bombing schools anyway, you might consider taking away their bombs. Unless maybe you aren't actually bothered by the bombing of schools.
Yes, in public Biden and the state department expressed some disapproval, said they’d look into it, etc. That was assuage angry public sentiment. But the whole time they went out of their way to send billions in weapons to Israel. They didn’t do a single thing in practice to end the genocide. (Unlike Reagan who got Israel to stand down with a single phone call) Furthermore Biden is an avowed Zionist and I would even assume Islamophobe.
Articles 51 and 54, Protocol I, Geneva conventions:
..outlaw indiscriminate attacks on civilian populations, and destruction of food sources, water, and other materials needed for survival. This include directly attacking civilian (non-military) targets, but also using technologies whose scope of destruction cannot be limited. A total war that does not distinguish between civilian and military targets is considered a war crime.
It is pretty clear that you cannot control not only who receives a pager, but also who is near a person with a pager.
There are multiple clips circulating where the pager bombs went off in public, and multiple stories about the pager bombs going off inside peoples houses.
Imagine being at a grocery store and a bomb goes off next to you. You couldn't have escaped the warzone because you are trapped. Imagine if this has happened to IDF fighters, how it would be portrayed. This is clearly terrorism.
They actually tested for people standing nearby terrorists to ensure they’re not injured. That’s in the documentary. Anyway well done the IDF for making the Middle East a better place without Hezbollah.
If you redefine exploding pagers issued strictly to members of the organization you're trying to eliminate as indiscriminate, what does that even leave as disriminate targetting?
Feels like an entirely disingenuous line of argument; i don't like israel therefore _______
The issue is that the pagers did not solely belong to terrorist organizations. Just like all the missiles hitting apartment buildings in Gaza didn't hit apartment buildings where only terrorists lived. Why are we still believing this line of no collateral damage?
(I suppose we could interpret that the damage still occurred but was not collateral - that would imply it was purposeful)
I thought the whole reason this was newsworthy is because Israeli security apparatus managed to intercept Hezbollah new pager shipment? That is, pagers ordered by Hezbollah to be used by Hezbollah members.
Well, Israel said they were only for Hezbollah members. Israel also says it only missile-strikes Hamas bases. In both cases, the corpses of civilians say differently.
So the thing you alluded to earlier - mossad shoving explosives into just random pagers - was a completely unsubstantiated speculation? About the only collateral damage that I've read about was a child that was sitting on a hamas member's lap when the pager triggered.
It would appear you are one of the "i don't like israel therefore ____" people.
Nobody is mentioning the elephant in the room: for sure many of the pagers where brought aboard commercial flights. So Israel seems to have an explosive that cannot be detected by the airport security, or they can confine usual explosives in a way that makes it undetectable by the standard means.
We are writing about this like it is something to awe over when it's clearly a war crime. If Russia or China was the one that did this it would be written about completely differently.
Can't wait for this to be made into a movie where the hero is the one that killed innocent civilians. /s
[flagged]
To paraphrase Chomsky: When we do it, it’s just. When they do it, it’s terrorism.
> It's not a war crime.
Really it does not matter if it is a war crime or is not.
We are talking about just one drop in an ocean of war crimes. One drop more or less will not change the fact that Israel behavior is out of control and extremely disgusting.
Could somebody show any single international law about war and human rights that still has not been desecrated by Israel?.
Any people jailed by that? oh they don't work with us anymore, they are 'ex', so everything is fine
No more questions, your Honor.
No need to be outraged, Israel is doing exactly what the US leadership wants without the US having to put her own troops on the ground.
The US security state has never given a damn about freedom or democracy or any of that. It only cares about world power which in turn is about controlling the world’s oil so China can’t get it.
> Israel is doing exactly what the US leadership wants
I don't think that Biden will send a Christmas card to Netanyahu this year.
Biden, the maximum representation of US leadership, asked repeatedly Netanyahu to stop the genocide. Biden lost the elections, in part, because Netanyahu smiled a lot, gave a lot of pinky promises, cheered a lot, and then treated him like a fool and increased the genocide speed, knowing perfectly that this would harm Biden. Not unlike what he did with previous presidents. He does not care.
Biden continued providing weapons, without which the genocide would be unable to continue. If he wanted the genocide to stop, he could stop providing weapons.
Sadly, it is extremely typical for "liberal parties" - both currently and historically - that they will always talk about how bad things are bad, but when making actual decisions, they almost always support the bad things.
Just because you have a weapon, does not mean that you are forced to bomb a school full of children. And an hospital. And a refugee camp. And a journalists van. And humanitary NGO staff preparing food for refugees
It was their decision and only their decision. Israel are adults and could decide anytime to proceed according to law.
They instead killed as much children, and journalists, and doctors, and nurses, and volunteers as possible. They destroyed trucks of help aid and food, knowing that people were starving at the other side of the fence. And they toke selfies smiling happy in front of the rubbles in the most sadist and disgusting way possible. They even killed some of their own kidnapped people.
They don't even seem to regret the damage done to the image of Jews in the entire planet. They will be shinning happy for this, as long as the tourists don't stop visiting the country and buying silly souvenirs.
It was a decision of Biden to keep giving them weapons after they kept using the weapons to bomb schools etc.
Usually, if you don't support the bombing of schools, you tell someone to stop bombing schools, and they keep bombing schools anyway, you might consider taking away their bombs. Unless maybe you aren't actually bothered by the bombing of schools.
Sorry but that doesn’t match reality.
Yes, in public Biden and the state department expressed some disapproval, said they’d look into it, etc. That was assuage angry public sentiment. But the whole time they went out of their way to send billions in weapons to Israel. They didn’t do a single thing in practice to end the genocide. (Unlike Reagan who got Israel to stand down with a single phone call) Furthermore Biden is an avowed Zionist and I would even assume Islamophobe.
Articles 51 and 54, Protocol I, Geneva conventions:
..outlaw indiscriminate attacks on civilian populations, and destruction of food sources, water, and other materials needed for survival. This include directly attacking civilian (non-military) targets, but also using technologies whose scope of destruction cannot be limited. A total war that does not distinguish between civilian and military targets is considered a war crime.
It is pretty clear that you cannot control not only who receives a pager, but also who is near a person with a pager.
There are multiple clips circulating where the pager bombs went off in public, and multiple stories about the pager bombs going off inside peoples houses.
Imagine being at a grocery store and a bomb goes off next to you. You couldn't have escaped the warzone because you are trapped. Imagine if this has happened to IDF fighters, how it would be portrayed. This is clearly terrorism.
They actually tested for people standing nearby terrorists to ensure they’re not injured. That’s in the documentary. Anyway well done the IDF for making the Middle East a better place without Hezbollah.
Because the IDF would not crank the propaganda machine to the max following such an act.
Also, as a reminder, Hezbollah was founded in 1982 by Lebanese clerics in response to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon.
The middle east would be a much better place without Hezbollah & Israel, for sure.
If you redefine exploding pagers issued strictly to members of the organization you're trying to eliminate as indiscriminate, what does that even leave as disriminate targetting?
Feels like an entirely disingenuous line of argument; i don't like israel therefore _______
The issue is that the pagers did not solely belong to terrorist organizations. Just like all the missiles hitting apartment buildings in Gaza didn't hit apartment buildings where only terrorists lived. Why are we still believing this line of no collateral damage?
(I suppose we could interpret that the damage still occurred but was not collateral - that would imply it was purposeful)
I thought the whole reason this was newsworthy is because Israeli security apparatus managed to intercept Hezbollah new pager shipment? That is, pagers ordered by Hezbollah to be used by Hezbollah members.
Well, Israel said they were only for Hezbollah members. Israel also says it only missile-strikes Hamas bases. In both cases, the corpses of civilians say differently.
So the thing you alluded to earlier - mossad shoving explosives into just random pagers - was a completely unsubstantiated speculation? About the only collateral damage that I've read about was a child that was sitting on a hamas member's lap when the pager triggered.
It would appear you are one of the "i don't like israel therefore ____" people.
Nobody is mentioning the elephant in the room: for sure many of the pagers where brought aboard commercial flights. So Israel seems to have an explosive that cannot be detected by the airport security, or they can confine usual explosives in a way that makes it undetectable by the standard means.
Isn't it the case that some explosives can only be detected due to the introduction of "taggants" at the production stage?
Seems in airports they’re trying to detect oxidizers? (Among other things) I can’t bring my hydrogen peroxide contact solution through security.
Is it that, or hezbollah goes out of their way to not take those pagers on a plane for opsec reasons? The latter would strike me as more likely.